Duplicity and Immorality: Women and Gays in the Military

On Monday, four star Marine General Peter Pace — speaking in his current role as the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff for the United States military — said, like adultery, being Gay is immoral and that Gays should not be allowed to “openly” serve their country in the armed forces.
Over 65,000 gay and lesbian soldiers currently serve in the military under the current “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” fallacy of a policy that General Pace, pictured below, must enforce.


Yesterday General Pace tried to clarify his position without apologizing or backing away from his hateful comments:

WASHINGTON — The Pentagon’s top general said Tuesday
he should not have voiced his personal view that homosexuality is
immoral and should have just stated his support for the military’s
“don’t ask, don’t tell” policy in an interview that has drawn criticism
from lawmakers and gay-rights groups.

Here’s how the Washington Post describes the current military policy on Gays:

The military lets gay men and lesbians serve if they
keep their sexual orientation private. Commanders may not ask, and
service members may not tell. More than 10,000 troops, including more
than 50 specialists in Arabic, have been discharged since President
Clinton signed it into law in 1994.

Are Gays in the military considered bad for morale?

Are straight women in the military good for morale or not?

Does the rape and sexual harassent of female soldiers in Iraq get the same Joint Chiefs hatred and attention as Gays in the military?

Last year, Col. Janis Karpinski
caused a stir by publicly reporting that in 2003, three female soldiers
had died of dehydration in Iraq, which can get up to 126 degrees in the
summer, because they refused to drink liquids late in the day. They
were afraid of being raped by male soldiers if they walked to the
latrines after dark. …
The latrines were far away and unlit, she explained, and male soldiers
were jumping women who went to them at night, dragging them into the
Port-a-Johns, and raping or abusing them. …

Not everyone realizes how different the Iraq war is for women than any
other American war in history. More than 160,500 American female
soldiers have served in Iraq, Afghanistan and the Middle East since the
war began in 2003, which means one in seven soldiers is a woman. Women
now make up 15 percent of active duty forces, four times more than in
the 1991 Gulf War. At least 450 women have been wounded in Iraq, and 71
have died — more female casualties and deaths than in the Korean,
Vietnam and first Gulf Wars combined. And women are fighting in combat.
Officially, the Pentagon prohibits women from serving in ground combat
units such as the infantry, citing their lack of upper-body strength
and a reluctance to put girls and mothers in harm’s way.

But mention
this ban to any female soldier in Iraq and she will scoff.
“Of course we were in combat!” said Laura Naylor, 25, who served with
the Army Combat Military Police in Baghdad from 2003-04. “We were
interchangeable with the infantry. They came to our police stations and
helped pull security, and we helped them search houses and search
people. That’s how it is in Iraq.”…
Rape, sexual assault and harassment are nothing new to the military.
They were a serious problem for the Women’s Army Corps in Vietnam, and
the rapes and sexual hounding of Navy women at Tailhook in 1991 and of
Army women at Aberdeen in 1996 became national news.

A 2003 survey of
female veterans from Vietnam through the first Gulf War found that 30
percent said they were raped in the military. A 2004 study of veterans
from Vietnam and all the wars since, who were seeking help for
post-traumatic stress disorder, found that 71 percent of the women said they were sexually assaulted or raped while in the military. And in a third study, conducted in 1992-93 with female veterans of the Gulf War and earlier wars, 90 percent said they had been sexually harassed
in the military, which means anything from being pressured for sex to
being relentlessly teased and stared at. …

“There are only three kinds of female the men let you be in the
military: a bitch, a ho or a dyke,” said Montoya, the soldier who
carried a knife for protection. “This guy out there, he told me he
thinks the military sends women over to give the guys eye candy to keep
them sane. He said in Vietnam they had prostitutes to keep them from
going crazy, but they don’t have those in Iraq. So they have women
soldiers instead.” …
“My team leader offered me up to $250 for a hand job. He would always
make sure that we were out alone together at the beginning, and he
wouldn’t stop pressuring me for sex.”

Let’s don’t forget what our own Urban Semiotic Sgt. Martha reported directly from Iraq in July 2005:

It is also very difficult being female in this type
of environment. Men generally don’t like to hear this because they
construe it as typical man-bashing woman bitching but I am not angry
about this — it is just another objective observation.

I guess because of the type of chick that I am, and what I like
to do, I’ve been in many situations (military, job, etc.) where I am
the only, or one of the very few, women present. Because of this I’ve
always felt that I needed to work three times as hard to prove myself
to the men.

I don’t have a problem with that at all, but the attitude
of the males over here gets really exhausting.

No matter how many times a female gets sh*t right, if she f*cks
up on something ONE TIME, she never hears the end of it. And it’s
always BECAUSE she’s a girl. The guys drive like maniacs, crash into
sh*t, lose vehicle parts — but if a chick so much as makes a wrong turn
(not during a convoy, of course — I mean on post where it doesn’t
really matter) it’s always “women drivers” and “no sense of direction”
that, etc. ad nauseam.

It doesn’t really affect me and I mostly try to ignore it, but
it p*sses me off that the few women over here aren’t given a chance
before they’re stereotyped and categorized.

Do you find the current policy concerning women in the military
duplicitous and do you believe it is immoral how Gays are treated in
the military as a matter of official armed forces policy?
Is there a predictable and dangerous disconnect between straight women,
Gay men and lesbians in the military and their fellow comrades-in-arms
and superiors?

If so, how to we remedy that unequal human reality
hitting the ground and lurking in the latrines?

36 comments

  • David,
    To be frank, this subject has always p*ssed me off and I’m glad you’ve shed some light on it today. I find the attitude of the military towards women to be extremely duplicitous. To appear to refuse them the right to fight as the men do because they are trying to preserve the “fairer sex” and simultaneously turn a blind eye to their sexual assault is disgusting and the most blatant hypocrisy I have seen in a while.
    [Commented edited by David W. Boles for content.]

    Like

  • Thank you for your passionate reply, Emily!
    I agree there is a strange and unfortunate disconnect between honor and service and fair treatment between genders and sexual identity in the American armed forces.
    Are we Americans?
    Or are we merely our gender and our sex life?
    Here’s a fascinating link addressing Gays in the Israeli Forces:
    http://www.gaymilitary.ucsb.edu/Publications/IsraelPub1.htm
    Let’s not forget our own Sgt. Martha’s report from the front lines:
    http://urbansemiotic.com/2005/07/14/sgt-martha-writes-from-iraq/
    I’m going to add that link to the article!

    Like

  • “Are we Americans?
    Or are we merely our gender and our sex life?”
    It is my experience that I am seen, before anything else, as my gender. Being a woman colors my accomplishments, failures, qualities, vices, strengths and weaknesses in a way that is rarely, if ever, positive.

    Like

  • Emily —
    Do men and women equally “box” you into a predetermined pattern of behavior?
    Do you find you have to fight your way out of that preconceived notion of you based on gender or do you just go along with the prejudices because they cannot be changed?

    Like

  • Kathakali Chatterjee

    I am at work, but couldn’t help writing a few lines…
    Here is an incident happened 10 months ago in India – a vibrant, bright young woman Lt. Sushmita Chakroborty shot herself in utter frustration.
    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1655698.cms
    The Vice Chief Lt. General commented after this incident – “Army could do without women.”
    http://www.hindustantimes.in/news/181_1721811,0008.htm
    Here is another case about one of the most heroic figure, the Director-General of Punjab Police and a very senior IAS (Indian Administrative service) officer Rupan Deol Bajaj:
    http://www.hindu.com/2005/07/28/stories/2005072811820100.htm
    This is becoming a global phenomena.

    Like

  • Kathakali Chatterjee

    I am at work, but couldn’t help writing a few lines…
    Here is an incident happened 10 months ago in India – a vibrant, bright young woman Lt. Sushmita Chakroborty shot herself in utter frustration.
    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1655698.cms
    The Vice Chief Lt. General commented after this incident – “Army could do without women.”
    http://www.hindustantimes.in/news/181_1721811,0008.htm
    Here is another case about one of the most heroic figure, the Director-General of Punjab Police and a very senior IAS (Indian Administrative service) officer Rupan Deol Bajaj:
    http://www.hindu.com/2005/07/28/stories/2005072811820100.htm
    This is becoming a global phenomena.

    Like

  • David,
    Both men and women are guilty of trying to “box me in” to their idea of what femininity is. The fact that I am unmarried and have no intention of or desire for matrimony any time soon baffles most women I have come across. They are always puzzled and ask, “Well…What are you going to DO?” As if there are no other options or, at least, none as good as being married. What is this, the Fifties?!?! And men, of course, label me a “bitch” for not being interested in being tied down.
    A great, great book is ‘Are Men Necessary,’ by Maureen Dowd. I have to agree with Ms. Dowd when she asserts that true feminism has withered and died and been replaced by the neurotic and ever-dependent women of the ‘Desperate Housewives’ and ‘Sex and the City’ variety. The characters in these shows should NOT be exemplified by the modern woman and are actually worse than the Fifties Wife stereotype of ‘Leave it to Beaver’ and the like.
    Whether I fight the gender stereotypes I encounter or allow them to continue is largely dependent upon the offender and the situation at hand. If I fought every single prejudice presented to me, I would be completely swallowed in the ignorance of others. Some are too hurtful and obvious to let go; some are meaningless when I consider the source.

    Like

  • Oh, Katha, what terrible stories!
    I wonder why men are so fearful of women with guns and the ability to shoot-to-kill? Women may not be as physically strong as men genetically, but they can still press a button or pull a trigger to kill. I guess firepower is the ultimate gender equalizer, eh?

    Like

  • Emily —
    You have an idea of femininity, though, right? Do you wear make-up? Do you get your hair cut? Do you wear clothes of the current time?
    Are those choices your own personal definition of playing the role of a woman in society, or do you feel the need to conform, even in some small manner, to the expectations of gender acceptance and interaction?
    I grew up in a town where you were supposed to get married when you graduated high school. If you weren’t getting married, then you were supposed to be seriously engaged to one person until you finished your college degree. To go against those marital expectations was to tempt the moral fiber of the community and ostracism.
    Do you plan to stick it out in Oklahoma forever? It seems a NYC or a Los Angeles might be a better social fit for you where your lifestyle and choices would be considered rather ordinary and mainstream. :grin:
    Maureen Dowd is funny, but I do wish she’d try to have a little more seriousness in her weekly NYTimes articles because it’s too easy to wash her off as a trying-too-hard comedienne.
    Drawing lines and knowing where to fight and when to retreat is an ongoing test for the living.

    Like

  • David,
    Certainly everyone feels the need to conform. In one of my favorite episodes of South Park, Stan decides to go “Goth” and hang out with the “Goth” crowd at his school. These kids ridicule all the others at their school as being “Conformists” and “Nazis.” But when Stan asks what he must do to become a Non-Conformist, one of them says, “All you have to do to be a Non-Conformist is dress exactly like us and listen to the same kind of music we do.” Good stuff!
    I will venture to say that wearing make-up, cutting my hair and wearing fashionable clothes makes me a better example of feminism than women who don’t.
    Hear me out.
    When I think of women who do not wear make-up, do not cut their hair and do not wear fashionable clothes, I think of the women I have met who are Pentacostal. It is my opinion that Evangelist women have one of the most warped views of feminism out there. My appearance does not make or break me as a Feminist. My mind and my heart do.
    I knew that Maureen Dowd was a writer for the Times, but I have never read any of her work there. The only thing I have read of hers is the book I mentioned earlier.

    Like

  • Here’s where you lose me, Emily… the genetic relevance of a female on a DNA level isn’t found in the possessions of the skin in makeup or clothes or shows… so if you decide to “play the game” of dressing as a woman who advertises the mainstream, cultural and semiotic stereotypes of your gender and sexuality, is it appropriate to be surprised or angered or even upset when those visual signals are covertly and unconsciously picked up by members of the other gender and acted upon?
    Maureen has an alluring photograph next to her Wednesday and Saturday NYTimes articles. You can read them online if you’re a TimesSelect member.

    Like

  • Sexual assault isn’t limited just to the military. It is happening on college campuses:

    Figures on sexual assaults against college women are hard to pin down. Less than 5 percent of these rape or attempted rape cases are reported to the police and victims are often confused about what constitutes rape, according to The Sexual Victimization of College Women study sponsored by the U.S. Department of Justice in 2000. The study estimated, however, that 1-in-4 women experienced rape or attempted rape during their college career.

    Schools can sweep incidents under the rug because they encourage victims to use the on-school campus boards that keep everything confidential.

    It’s unknown how many schools use actual nondisclosure agreements in cases of sexual assault. But rape advocates say that one way or another, most colleges conduct student disciplinary cases in confidentiality.

    If someone gets busted by a school, but is let out to wander the streets, is that really a proper punishment?
    Something needs to be done to teach people that violence isn’t a proper way to live life despite all of the messages received from the media.
    I can’t really get too excited about gays in the military because they have probably always been in the military since the beginning of time.
    I hope this isn’t too flip — I’m putting on the asbestos vest just in case — but when this topic comes up I always think of the Village People and their song “In the Navy.” :)

    Like

  • Sexual assault isn’t limited just to the military. It is happening on college campuses:

    Figures on sexual assaults against college women are hard to pin down. Less than 5 percent of these rape or attempted rape cases are reported to the police and victims are often confused about what constitutes rape, according to The Sexual Victimization of College Women study sponsored by the U.S. Department of Justice in 2000. The study estimated, however, that 1-in-4 women experienced rape or attempted rape during their college career.

    Schools can sweep incidents under the rug because they encourage victims to use the on-school campus boards that keep everything confidential.

    It’s unknown how many schools use actual nondisclosure agreements in cases of sexual assault. But rape advocates say that one way or another, most colleges conduct student disciplinary cases in confidentiality.

    If someone gets busted by a school, but is let out to wander the streets, is that really a proper punishment?
    Something needs to be done to teach people that violence isn’t a proper way to live life despite all of the messages received from the media.
    I can’t really get too excited about gays in the military because they have probably always been in the military since the beginning of time.
    I hope this isn’t too flip — I’m putting on the asbestos vest just in case — but when this topic comes up I always think of the Village People and their song “In the Navy.” :)

    Like

  • Chris —
    I understand rape and sexual assault is everywhere — but the point of the article I quoted is that the military is hierarchical and you cannot disobey a direct order and when those above you in the chain-of-command seek to sexually abuse you — there is nowhere for you to turn without it hurting you more than it hurts them.
    A college campus doesn’t have military codes of conduct or the same honor codes and mandatory buddying up that can mean life or death as they do in a military war zone.
    I agree Gay people are everywhere and to try to hunt them down just to sniff them out makes them only their sexual preference and purposefully devalues their minds and spirit.

    Like

  • Chris —
    I understand rape and sexual assault is everywhere — but the point of the article I quoted is that the military is hierarchical and you cannot disobey a direct order and when those above you in the chain-of-command seek to sexually abuse you — there is nowhere for you to turn without it hurting you more than it hurts them.
    A college campus doesn’t have military codes of conduct or the same honor codes and mandatory buddying up that can mean life or death as they do in a military war zone.
    I agree Gay people are everywhere and to try to hunt them down just to sniff them out makes them only their sexual preference and purposefully devalues their minds and spirit.

    Like

  • Can’t a woman wear makeup and stylish clothing without being labeled a whore or an anti-Feminist? I think to tell a woman that her makeup and her clothing symbolize who she is–whether because you think her appearance is too plain or too provocative–is to buy into the idea that that is all a woman is: her appearance.
    When you say that I can’t get upset when these “visual signals are covertly and unconsciously picked up on,” I’m not sure what you mean. Explain?

    Like

  • Can’t a woman wear makeup and stylish clothing without being labeled a whore or an anti-Feminist? I think to tell a woman that her makeup and her clothing symbolize who she is–whether because you think her appearance is too plain or too provocative–is to buy into the idea that that is all a woman is: her appearance.
    When you say that I can’t get upset when these “visual signals are covertly and unconsciously picked up on,” I’m not sure what you mean. Explain?

    Like

  • Emily —
    I don’t think you’re following your previous argument very well and I feel your tone has changed so let’s just drop this particular avenue of discussion.

    Like

  • Emily —
    I don’t think you’re following your previous argument very well and I feel your tone has changed so let’s just drop this particular avenue of discussion.

    Like

  • Ok, I have to post on this otherwise I won’t start on my paper.
    The attitude of the military in these situations also makes me angry. I never understood any of the arguments against women in modern combat. A woman can pull a trigger the same as a man. In fact, in modern guerrilla warfare a smaller woman (or man) may be of use. Even in hand to hand combat expertise is usually a greater advantage than strength.
    The sexual harassment and rape that women endure in the military is disgusting. Those men should be punished far more severely than they probably are being punished. I think that in some ways they are trying to punish the women for being in a ‘man’s territory’. I’m not saying they think that, but they obviously feel so threatened by it that they retaliate in a way that makes them feel superior to all women. Rape is never about sex, it’s about power. The men who are only saying things to them are guilty of the same sentiment. They feel threatened so they try and remind themselves who’s ‘really’ in charge. I don’t even know why they do feel threatened. Its not like I think its well thought out or anything. Maybe it’s the opposite and a women in the military makes them have to think and they immediately want to put her in some kind of box.
    Personally, I think that women should be drafted as well as men if they ever again institute a draft in this country.
    And, just for the record, I don’t wear makeup or dress up in the latest fashion, but this more has to do with comfort than anything else. I don’t know what cutting your hair has to do with anything. Men have to cut their hair to be socially acceptable. We all have to do something to be acceptable. If I got a job that expected me to dress well and wear makeup I probably would do so, and in fact, when I go to a job interview or some important event I wear makeup. I think it’s unfair that women have to do different things than a man, but I think it’s equally unfair to tell somebody what they should wear. And I think people who believe in equal rights for women are feminists, and that they probably have better things to discuss than who is or is not wearing makeup. Or high heels, or whatever. As long as women are still being raped in the military and on the streets, and women still face prejudice at work, than why is make up important at all?
    I don’t wear makeup, and I still get treated as a woman first before anything else. I get different reactions when I wear make up, but I get treated first as a woman either way. I mean, not all the time, but its true generally. Men talk differently to women than to men and the same goes for women. Many people expect certain things out of women and not wearing makeup doesn’t change my gender. However, its natural for everyone to use some form of prejudice when assessing others for the first time. Its after people get to know me and then make a comment about ‘all women such and such’ that gets me ticked off. General statements will always be wrong, (including this one). (Isn’t that a quote?)
    Ok, I think I’ve said enough for now. I have to go work on my paper. ^_^;

    Like

  • Ok, I have to post on this otherwise I won’t start on my paper.
    The attitude of the military in these situations also makes me angry. I never understood any of the arguments against women in modern combat. A woman can pull a trigger the same as a man. In fact, in modern guerrilla warfare a smaller woman (or man) may be of use. Even in hand to hand combat expertise is usually a greater advantage than strength.
    The sexual harassment and rape that women endure in the military is disgusting. Those men should be punished far more severely than they probably are being punished. I think that in some ways they are trying to punish the women for being in a ‘man’s territory’. I’m not saying they think that, but they obviously feel so threatened by it that they retaliate in a way that makes them feel superior to all women. Rape is never about sex, it’s about power. The men who are only saying things to them are guilty of the same sentiment. They feel threatened so they try and remind themselves who’s ‘really’ in charge. I don’t even know why they do feel threatened. Its not like I think its well thought out or anything. Maybe it’s the opposite and a women in the military makes them have to think and they immediately want to put her in some kind of box.
    Personally, I think that women should be drafted as well as men if they ever again institute a draft in this country.
    And, just for the record, I don’t wear makeup or dress up in the latest fashion, but this more has to do with comfort than anything else. I don’t know what cutting your hair has to do with anything. Men have to cut their hair to be socially acceptable. We all have to do something to be acceptable. If I got a job that expected me to dress well and wear makeup I probably would do so, and in fact, when I go to a job interview or some important event I wear makeup. I think it’s unfair that women have to do different things than a man, but I think it’s equally unfair to tell somebody what they should wear. And I think people who believe in equal rights for women are feminists, and that they probably have better things to discuss than who is or is not wearing makeup. Or high heels, or whatever. As long as women are still being raped in the military and on the streets, and women still face prejudice at work, than why is make up important at all?
    I don’t wear makeup, and I still get treated as a woman first before anything else. I get different reactions when I wear make up, but I get treated first as a woman either way. I mean, not all the time, but its true generally. Men talk differently to women than to men and the same goes for women. Many people expect certain things out of women and not wearing makeup doesn’t change my gender. However, its natural for everyone to use some form of prejudice when assessing others for the first time. Its after people get to know me and then make a comment about ‘all women such and such’ that gets me ticked off. General statements will always be wrong, (including this one). (Isn’t that a quote?)
    Ok, I think I’ve said enough for now. I have to go work on my paper. ^_^;

    Like

  • Thanks for the comment, Stacy!
    The sad thing about the article I quoted and linked was the death of the three women soldiers who refused to drink water at night in 126 degree heat because they feared getting raped by the men in their unit when they went to the latrine to urinate.
    That must have been a living and immediate terror. The full story is horribly engrossing and well-searched with facts and studies about the sexual abuse of women in the military.
    I can see makeup is a sensitive subject. I find that mask unnecessary and generally unattractive but many women feel required by society to wear makeup and to have their hair cut “just so” in the popular modern style and to wear the right shoes –- among other things — all so they don’t stand out in a bad way in order to feel accepted in society as “proper women.”
    Men are also trained — consciously or not — to respond to those semiotic symbols of traditionally publicly performed femininity. When a woman puts wet, red, lipstick on her lips — what is she imitating, indicating and semiotically representing whether she or the males around her consciously realize or not?
    It’s the same semiotic issue as drawing a heart by hand. What part of a woman’s sexual anatomy is being reproduced and idolized in that significant, yet innocent, drawing?
    We are all hardwired to attract, repel and control and we do it — whether we admit it or not — through the semiotics we choose to employ, and respond to, in our lives.

    Like

  • Thanks for the comment, Stacy!
    The sad thing about the article I quoted and linked was the death of the three women soldiers who refused to drink water at night in 126 degree heat because they feared getting raped by the men in their unit when they went to the latrine to urinate.
    That must have been a living and immediate terror. The full story is horribly engrossing and well-searched with facts and studies about the sexual abuse of women in the military.
    I can see makeup is a sensitive subject. I find that mask unnecessary and generally unattractive but many women feel required by society to wear makeup and to have their hair cut “just so” in the popular modern style and to wear the right shoes –- among other things — all so they don’t stand out in a bad way in order to feel accepted in society as “proper women.”
    Men are also trained — consciously or not — to respond to those semiotic symbols of traditionally publicly performed femininity. When a woman puts wet, red, lipstick on her lips — what is she imitating, indicating and semiotically representing whether she or the males around her consciously realize or not?
    It’s the same semiotic issue as drawing a heart by hand. What part of a woman’s sexual anatomy is being reproduced and idolized in that significant, yet innocent, drawing?
    We are all hardwired to attract, repel and control and we do it — whether we admit it or not — through the semiotics we choose to employ, and respond to, in our lives.

    Like

  • I wonder how General Pace and his superiors would cope without those 65000 gay and lesbian troops?
    Emily – for the record – I do not wear make up – I do not cut my hair (maybe once every couple of years I get it trimmed) – I am not a dedicated follower of fashion and I am far from Pentacostal ………….

    Like

  • I wonder how General Pace and his superiors would cope without those 65000 gay and lesbian troops?
    Emily – for the record – I do not wear make up – I do not cut my hair (maybe once every couple of years I get it trimmed) – I am not a dedicated follower of fashion and I am far from Pentacostal ………….

    Like

  • That’s an excellent question, Nicola! They’re there — and they are working!

    Like

  • That’s an excellent question, Nicola! They’re there — and they are working!

    Like

  • Kathakali Chatterjee

    David,
    Are men fearful of women in the military or it is difficult to restrain themselves to see a woman colleague as a sexual object as they are deprived of sex, no matter what kind?
    Women are not genetically powerful as men and most of them probably can’t be a part of the ‘crude man to man talk’ in the military which make men equally frustrated I guess – because they have to act ‘civilized’ in front of a female colleague!

    Like

  • Kathakali Chatterjee

    David,
    Are men fearful of women in the military or it is difficult to restrain themselves to see a woman colleague as a sexual object as they are deprived of sex, no matter what kind?
    Women are not genetically powerful as men and most of them probably can’t be a part of the ‘crude man to man talk’ in the military which make men equally frustrated I guess – because they have to act ‘civilized’ in front of a female colleague!

    Like

  • Kathakali Chatterjee

    Oh yes, I would like to add a few more things…
    I do believe in the social, political and economic equality of sexes but at the same time I think it doesn’t have to do anything with one’s femininity. I can lead my life the way I want even without being a prominent feminist or otherwise.
    Women will be feminine, that’s pretty obvious. Women can ooze appeal even without any kind of ‘décor’ or ‘not playing the game’ which might be noticed by only a handful of people – but they are there.
    Unfortunately, we judge everybody by appearance first, regardless of gender – we are genetically programmed to do that. It takes a lot of restrain, polish and refinement to think and explore beyond one’s ‘look’ – with make up or not.
    By the way, I don’t wear make up, I am very conservative as far clothing goes – all I care whether I am looking presentable enough and I am definitely not a Pentacostal.

    Like

  • Kathakali Chatterjee

    Oh yes, I would like to add a few more things…
    I do believe in the social, political and economic equality of sexes but at the same time I think it doesn’t have to do anything with one’s femininity. I can lead my life the way I want even without being a prominent feminist or otherwise.
    Women will be feminine, that’s pretty obvious. Women can ooze appeal even without any kind of ‘décor’ or ‘not playing the game’ which might be noticed by only a handful of people – but they are there.
    Unfortunately, we judge everybody by appearance first, regardless of gender – we are genetically programmed to do that. It takes a lot of restrain, polish and refinement to think and explore beyond one’s ‘look’ – with make up or not.
    By the way, I don’t wear make up, I am very conservative as far clothing goes – all I care whether I am looking presentable enough and I am definitely not a Pentacostal.

    Like

  • You ask some great questions and you make some fine points, Katha!
    Our eyes are our greatest appeal. They dictate our being and our attitude and presenting pleasing things to them for visioning is a powerful art.

    Like

  • You ask some great questions and you make some fine points, Katha!
    Our eyes are our greatest appeal. They dictate our being and our attitude and presenting pleasing things to them for visioning is a powerful art.

    Like

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